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MSNBC
Dec 5, 2012 1:00pm PST
. and then this party that paraded around as the big deficit hawks, the guys that wanted to control spending, the only cuts they put on the table is playing at margins, increasing retirement age from 65 to 67 and adjusting rates for social security. this hasn't presented itself as a party that wants to cut spending. on one hand you have president obama's proposal, which most agree is the responsible way of raising the debt, raising rates. and responsible cuts on entitlements and discretionary spending versus republicans who are divided against something that is a chicken hawk when it comes to the deficits, that is the boehner approach, or the more extremist position which is absolutely nothing.ç so this is an extraordinary position for the republican party to have evolved into. >> you must respond to what julian just said. >> i like julian an awful lot but i think what he said is entirely wrong. it's fascinating president obama last july, july of 2011, said we can get $1.2 trillion in revenue where we don't have to raise marginal tax rates and close loopholes and julian says most economists agree, i
MSNBC
Dec 5, 2012 11:00pm PST
situation to be in. >> as the conversation shifts really to the bottom line in the deficit. at the end of the day the whole thing is about -- it's optical illusions and face saving for republicans. whether it's the notion they may not vote yes but just present, which is complete smoke and mirrors or the fundamental argument which is closing loopholes is not a tax increase. of course it is. at the core this is about asking americans to pay more americans to the federal government. this is just -- it's -- bill clinton called it kabuki theater. it's a way for republicans not to be ashamed and walk back the ideological core they've run on for the past few years. >> if president obama is able to come out and say i'm going to support getting rid of tax ducks for charitable organizations, hospitals, universities, religious organizations, i want to get rid of that tax deduction f he puts his finger -- his hand anywhere near that decision, he's going to be a loony toon every hospital, church, philanthropic in the united states, from the rockefeller down to the littlest catholic charity will fig
MSNBC
Dec 4, 2012 8:00pm PST
the deficit, create jobs. so we know we have to have growth. we know we have to make cuts. we know we have to have revenue. you can't get from here to there without it. so if you read closely what they have in their letter, even though it's bare bones, you have voucher rising of medicare, you have a return to the ryan budget, which priorities are not priorities that i think the american people share. >> rates, can there be a deal done with the rates not going up? >> no. i'm an appropriator for a long time in the congress. we used to have an expression. it's not the price. it's the money. this is not to be punitive on the people who make over $250,000. it's just to be fair to the entire country. you need that additional revenue in order to reduce the deficit and continue to make investments in growth. >> if speaker boehner says that, you know, we're not going to move on the rates, where are we? >> i hope that's just a bargaining position. but the fact is we have talked about it two step. do a down payment on cuts, on investments and on revenue this year and then in the next year, take the t
MSNBC
Dec 2, 2012 5:00am PST
at revenue from somebody. on the state side, when i got elections a $3.65 billion deficit. the worst in the nation. i quickly realized it's too large to tax your way out of or to cut your way out. it had to be a combination. that portion hasn't happened to the extent we presumed it would. this year, we have to trim expenditures by $365 million more than we otherwise would have. but, the grand bargain with the public is, to maintain a level of service they have a comfort level with. to not overdo it, not overextend ones self. >> when grow to voters and say, we are going to raise taxes, what is the pitch? >> i did 14 town hall meetings, no, 17 town hall meetings and got yelled at at every single one of them. we had a conversation with the public about what are the options. if you are talking cutting a budget by 17% because that's what the revenue short fall was, they quickly understood, you can't cut a budget 17% in a single year and sustain the level of services that allow their children to be educate and their mother and father remain in a nursing home and receive benefits and so see
MSNBC
Nov 29, 2012 7:00pm PST
in the top, those two things can be done at the same time. it's not very good for the long-term deficit. but as i always say, no one actually cares about the deficit. >> right. the -- there's a report out tonight that tim geithner made a fascinating proposal to boehner today which is basically get congress out of the debt ceiling game. mr. geithner proposed permanently ending congressional purview over the federal borrowing limit. republican aides revealed this. he said that congress could be allowed to pass a resolution blocking an increase in the debt limit, but that the president would be able to veto that resolution, and so then only a two-thirds -- two-thirds of lawmakers would be necessary to override a veto. put it -- put basically the debt ceiling into presidential veto land, as a spot where they would have influence. they will not go along with this. it is a brilliant and correct idea. >> it's a brilliant idea. and i think the fact that we're actually hearing democrats talk about the 14th amendment solution, saying the debt limit is unconstitutional in and maybe we'll go there
MSNBC
Nov 30, 2012 9:00am PST
and bridges and our schools. and i want to do all this while bringing down our deficits in a balanced and responsible way. [ applause ] on this last point, you probably heard a lot of talk in washington and in the media about the deedlines that we're facing on jobs and taxes and investment. this is not some run-of-the-mill debate. this isn't about which political party can come out on top in negotiations. we've got important decisions to make that are going to have a real impact on businesses and families all across the country. our long-term goal is to get our long-term deficit under control in a way that is balanced and is fair and that would be good for businesses, for our economy, for future generations. and i believe both parties can and will work together in the coming weeks to get that done. we know how that gets done. we're going to have to raise a little more revenue, we've got to cut out spending we don't need, building on the trillion dollars of spending cuts we've already made, and if we combine those two things, we can create a path where america's paying its bills while
MSNBC
Nov 30, 2012 10:00pm PST
and afghanistan, shaving another trillion off of the deficit. that gets us to around 4 trillion in deficit over the next ten years. we are almost at 5 trillion in deficit reduction. as they sign the game shows, that's not all. the white house is also asking for about 200 billion in stimulus. according to the weekly standard, when senate minority leader mitch mcconnell saw the proposal, he quote, burst into laughter. he literally lol 'd. >> i've been very guarded in what i wanted to say. i didn't want it make it harder for me it say or the president or members of both parties to find common ground. but when i come out the day after the election and make it clear that republicans will put revenue on the table, i took a great risk. and then the white house spends three weeks trying to develop a proposal and they send one up here, the calls for $1.6 trillion of new taxes, calls for not even $400 billion in cuts, and they want to have extra spending, that's actually greater than the amount they are willing to cut. i mean, it's -- it was not a serious proposal. and so, right now, we're almost nowhere
MSNBC
Dec 4, 2012 1:00am PST
. the deficit is not the biggest problem in the country. the deficit is shrinking by hundreds of millions of dollars every year the president has been in office. to the extent we need to use debt to accomplish other goals, you may not like the idea in the abstract, but debt is cheaper now than it has been in a long time. focusing on the deficit is like arguing about the color you might paint your car while you're crashing that car into a tree. in washington the republicans are arguing about not a pretend problem but something that's a secondary problem. a problem that has no need to be the one problem we wreck everything else to solve. if you look at the real economy in the real world, outside of t stuff already think we're not growing enough to get back to a healthy economy. they cut the estimate to how much we are growing. people are not making enough money and therefore, not spending enough money and businesses are not hiring enough people. we need to be talking about growth. the problem in the country is an economic growth problem. the deficit, nobody wants there to be a deficit, but
MSNBC
Dec 6, 2012 1:00am PST
we're getting this technically correct, how to cut the deficit in the medium to long-term so as to avoid an immediate and dramatic cut in the short-term. yes, that's right. now, this may well present a problem for john boehner's caucus, because john boehner sent a letter to the president this week with his own plan, which advocates what just might be the least popular policy in american politics. okay, maybe that's hyperbole. but just be a tiny bit, i mean, mandatory gay marriage, in which every single married straight person had to immediately divorce their spouse, and accept a state-assigned same-gender spouse to replace them would probably be more popular than what john boehner proposed this week. what john boehner is advocating is making medicare available to fewer americans. as it happens, there is brand-new polling out today on how americans feel about the idea of congress using these deficit negotiations to make cuts to medicare. 79% of americans say they do not want congress to touch medicare in these deficit negotiations. 79%. if you want to get specific about john b
MSNBC
Dec 2, 2012 9:00am PST
is to go over the fiscal cliff. it maximizing the deficit reduction. there's no deal cut between republicans and democrats. it's not going to reduce the amount of money coming out of the deficit by a lot. so if you do that, you go back to the clinton tax rates, cut some defense and we have a short, mild recession for two quarters. we have to get serious about the deficit e. i have no belief that the congress is going to get serious about the deficit. so tom cole was right because he wants to get the republicans back in the mainstream. but the best thing the country could do is go over the cliff. >> timothy geithner doesn't agree with you on that. >> he may or may not. but i looked at this a lot of ways. the people inside washington are awfully smart and awfully out of touch. we need to do something about the deficit. going over the fiscal cliff is the best thing we're going to get out of washington in terms of serious production to the deficit. we will suffer, but we got ourselves into this. we're not going to get out without some pain. i think we are going to go over the cliff.
MSNBC
Dec 4, 2012 3:00pm PST
the white house in 1988. but just two years later, the reagan deficits were skyrocketing and president bush was forced to change his most famous line. >> long and bitter battle over the budget officially ended last night. president bush put his signature on the deficit reduction package, including $140 billion in tax increases. >> tax increases. that was a turning point for the modern republican party. the right wing went crazy. and george bush lost re-election. since then the party's been committed to never compromising on the tax issue, no matter the deficit. no congressional republican has voted for an increase in taxes since 1990. think about it. for nearly a quarter of a century, no new income taxes. in the current congress, 236 house republicans vowed never to raise taxes. 40 gop senators also kept that pledge. even president george w. bush, the man who got us into two wars we didn't pay for. the president who exploded our deficit. he insisted the solution to our problems were more tax cuts. president clinton handed him a $236 billion surplus. a surplus. and left office with a $1.2 tr
MSNBC
Dec 5, 2012 8:00am PST
in the house does not work in terms of reducing the deficit. >> congresswoman, we are watching the president on our screen at the business roundtable. there was an issue with the poll microphone for the president's address so they've handed him a different microphone, the leaders inside this room can hear exactly what the president is saying but his audio is too low for us to be able to share it with everybody. we're still working on that. when we see and hear about the fact this two-step plan getting something done for the middle class by the end of the year, does this set up the scenario we live in a perpetual state of fiscal cliff loopness, this is the same old dog and pony show every six months to a year fighting over the same things and not big, bold leadership? >> i hope not, certainly if it's not left up to president obama and congressional democrats. president obama proposed $4 trillion in deficit reduction, he has a balanced approach to take care of the middle class and that they have the certainty that they need that we make spending cuts that are significant, that make sense, and
MSNBC
Nov 28, 2012 8:00pm PST
, a lot of the other issues surrounding deficit reduction are going to be a whole lot easier. if we get this wrong, the economy is going to go south. we don't have a lot of time here. we have a few weeks to get this thing done. we could get it done tomorrow. optimistically, i don't think we are going to get it done tomorrow. >> the white house is using all social media resources to get the message out and put pressure on the republicans. >> today, i'm asking congress to listen to the people who sent us here to serve. i'm asking americans all across the country to make your voice heard. tell members of congress what a $2,000 tax hike would mean to you. call your members of congress, write them an e-mail, post it on their facebook walls. you can tweet it using the hash tag my 2 k, not y2 k. >> the president was laughing about you the strategy, seriously effective. the my2k was one of the top trends on twitter all day long. republicans aren't too happy. they are getting outflanked. >> if the president wants to reach an agreement, he needs to be talking with the members of his own party rig
MSNBC
Nov 30, 2012 3:00pm PST
to do with the deficit. social security is totally funded by the payroll tax levied on employer and employee. if you reduce the outgo of social security, that money would not go into the general fund to reduce the deficit. it would go into the social security trust fund. so social security has nothing to do with balancing a budget or erasing or lowering the deficit. >> social security has nothing to do with the deficit. it's not president obama saying that. it's president reagan, their hero. and he also said this. >> we're going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allowed the truly wealthy to avoid pay their fair share. in theory, some of those loopholes were understandable but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing while a bus driver was paying 10% of their salary. that's crazy. do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes or less? >> a millionaire should pay less in taxes than a bus driver. that's what this whole debate in washington right now is all about. joining me now is e.j. dionne from "the washington post." thank
MSNBC
Dec 5, 2012 1:00am PST
talked about during the campaign, which is a balanced, responsible approach to deficit reduction that can help give businesses certainty and make sure that the country grows. and unfortunately, the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. >> sometimes you hear a sound byte and it sounds like the normal talking points of the campaign that you always here, you're always hearing politicians saying the same thing. but listen again to that last thing that the president said there. >> unfortunately the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. >> speaker's proposal is out of balance. empirical statement, sort of. there's a way to judge whether or not that statement is true. what's happening in washington is both sides, republicans and democrats, are making offers and counteroffers about how to deal with the fiscal mess that they created. this artificial debt line that washington created. the white house made its offer to republicans last week. they sent timothy geithner up to capitol hill to unveil the administration's offer to congressional republicans. the offer was e
MSNBC
Nov 29, 2012 3:00am PST
of 2013-type solution. but the reality of dealing with this economy, its debt, it's deficit, spending priorities and all of that is not going to get done in the next five weeks. so let's be honest about that. i agree with you. i think that they're going to come to a short-term stopgap solution that deals with the cliff, that deals with the bush tax cuts that expire, that deal with the increase in unemployment rate that's due to hit in january. they'll deal with those short-term things, but the long-term systemic substantive points that need to be addressed will not get addressed in the next four weeks. >> steve, how would you markets respond if they decide we'll have a short-term fix but we haven't actually managed to come up with the real healthy response to what the economy needs? >> you're seeing a total kick the can. we really got nothing done this december, tough luck, we just want to extend it six months, i think the markets would be jittery but would probably accept it. going over the cliff -- and we were talking about this the other night in washington with a bunch of ceos," g
MSNBC
Nov 29, 2012 12:00pm PST
? >> because it's not really kind of a huge driver of the deficit we're talking about right now. it's really the health care programs. but i think if you just pull back and make it really simple for a second, what you see are the democrats are saying, wait a second. increasing taxes a little bit on the rich or significantly on the rich, however you want to look at it, is pretty popular with the public or at least has broad public support. cutting entitlements is not very popular. it could be the right thing to do. perhaps there's a way to do it. but it's not very popular. you're asking us to not do the thing and say that you want to help us do the thing that is popular. and you want us the democrats to go on the table and lay out the details of the thing that is really unpopular. are you crazy? >> your short answer is no, we will not get any significant entitlement reform? >> not now. i think what the democrats want to do is kind of box those tax hikes up and get them agreed to in principle. kind of break the republicans' back a little on that. then, okay, maybe we can have a discussion on e
MSNBC
Dec 3, 2012 6:00am PST
of a process to reduce the deficit the others face. >> republicans don't like owning reform either. this was tom cole on sunday. >> only obama can fix entitlements. democrat versus democrat fight over entitlement which mirrors their fighting over taxes. a response to an argument that was starting before former adviser steve ratner and minnesota democratic congressman keith ellison with near glee. there is no real choice about that. we're clear social security is off the table. this is, to me, the much more interesting debate between tom and dan. >> you want republicans arguing. both sides are also battling for control of the debt ceiling which may represent the republicans' greatest point of leverage in these budget talks. goo the speaker of the house says that's a nonstarter. >> silliness. congress will never give up the power. i've made it clear to the president. we need cuts in reform greater than the increase in the debt limit. >> bottom line, you've got to put a detailed plan on the table that the white house ends up agreeing to some of it, rejects some of it in the same way t
MSNBC
Dec 3, 2012 8:00pm PST
the middle class because given that we have a large budget deficit down the road and given that if we don't want to and they don't want to cut military spending, what's left? they will have to cut programs beneficial to the middle class. this is another example, this is a continuation of the war on the middle class that they started years ago. now it's becoming clear for everybody to see. it was very clear before the election, but we had an election. americans repudiated the republican idea. reverse robin hood economics and yet they are coming back with it. over and over and over again. i think the fact that boehner will not schedule a vote on the middle class extension of the bush tax cuts that the president wants, the senate has already passed this. boehner is under increasing pressure to schedule a vote on this and get it out of the way. once they do that, the game is over. >> nancy pelosi is trying to take care of that. she plans to bring a discharge petition to the floor of the house tomorrow. this would force republicans to openly accept or reject the middle class tax cuts. did this
MSNBC
Dec 6, 2012 12:00am PST
that certainty to the middle class. then we can work in earnest together to reduce the deficit in a balanced way that will make sure we don't first throw the middle class under the bus. that whatever we put forward have spending cuts and revenue that is going to take care of the middle class and make sure that we have spending cuts and revenue that ensures that they're fair and that the math works. there has been no evidence thus far that the republicans are interested in doing that. >> this has been the perfect opportunity for them to step forward and show some leadership. the majority of americans do want this right now. congresswoman, the president has asked you to stay on as d next c chair. what is the way forward for the democrats? what's happening here? >> well, we need to continue to focus on rebuilding our economy from the middle class out. president obama talked eloquently and passionately during the campaign about making sure that we can get a handle on this deficit, that we can rebuild our economy from the middle class out, that we can focus on creating jobs and getting the economy tu
MSNBC
Nov 29, 2012 3:00pm PST
as part of a long-term deficit reduction. if we don't ask higher income people to pay more, we're going to have to take it out on everybody else and the president is clear, you cannot continue to play political gains with the full faith and credit of the united states debt and so that was all part of the plan the president has put forward. >> now, with all of the talk of divide, politico is, however, reporting that there is some framework of a deal already taking shape. let me give you what they are saying. and the piece says, there is no chance taxes are not going to go up for people making north of $250,000 and virtually no chance that doesn't include their tax rates, too. is there a framework of a deal that you believe we can come together or are we still very much divided in terms of parties in the congress? >> well, i think it's premature to say that there's a deal in place. even the framework of a deal in place. but i agree with the politico reporting to the extent they concluded that higher income individuals are going to be paying more and that tax rates have to go up. because t
MSNBC
Dec 2, 2012 11:00am PST
for the american people that extends tax cuts to the american people. brings our long-term deficits down. tough spending savings is part of that, and invest in things that matter to the american economy, like infrastructure, and getting americans back to work. we think we can do that. we have a good chance, and it's very important. and i think we'll get there, david. >> do you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. because the only thing standing in the way of that is a refusal by republicans to accept that rates have to go up on the wealthiest americans. and i don't really see them doing that. >> the idea that they have signalled something significant for them, which is -- >> what is that? >> putting revenue on the table. >> it's welcome that they are recognizing that revenues are going to have to go up. but they haven't told us anything about how far rates should go up, how far revenues should go up, who should pay higher taxes. >> republicans have said that no republicans will vote for a tax rate increase. do you think they are just bluffing? >> i can't tell you what they ar
MSNBC
Dec 3, 2012 10:00am PST
is that at a minimum, any deficit package has to include this immediate february and march debt ceiling that we're going to hit. >> is jack lew the current chief of staff and former budget director the top candidate to be treasury? what is your best guess? >> he appears to be the frontrunner from everything you see and read and hear and he is a -- i've known him a long time. he's an accomplished guy. he knows these issues perfectly. he has worked in the financial community and has a sense of that and vice versa. and so i think he would be a it terrific choice. >> we should say there are a couple other people who have been rumored to being vetted. roger altman, former treasury official, larry fink, be erskine bowles. this what is alan simpson, erskine bowles' partner in the deficit commission, had to say about that possibility last week on the show. >> he said he would be very pleased to do that. he shared that with me personally, as long as they move the treasury department to north carolina, to charlotte. i don't think -- >> he's worked so hard on this. you don't think he could be persuaded? >
MSNBC
Dec 5, 2012 7:00pm PST
this conversation about having deficit reduction right now. we shouldn't have deficit reduction right now. we should focus on jobs and employment and continued stimulus for the economy, which i was really happy about the president at least had some of that in his plan. then you ask yourself, okay, what could you do in terms of reducing the deficit that would be the least damaging, and what economists say and what makes common sense is people at the top end of the income scale, who can afford to pay a little more, that's the place where we can raise the rates now and not have a major economic impact. so i take the governor's point, and i agree with it. we probably are going to -- if we're going to continue to make the promises and keep the promises that i think are so important and most progressives do, we probably need to raise taxes on a lot of people. it's a question of timing of when to make those choices. >> the rush limbaugh showed us today how difficult it is for john boehner and eric cantor to make the moves they've already made. let's listen to what rush said. >> what we got today was a semi
MSNBC
Dec 6, 2012 8:00am PST
is the problem? we cannot raise taxes enough to take care of $1 trillion worth of deficit spending every single year. so let's get off of this and get on to the other side and start talking about what we have to do to cut our spending, to reform those entitlement programs that are the debt drivers and then do pro-growth tax reform that will stimulate the economy, get the money coming in. it's the best way to get money coming in and that gives everybody a job and helps to take care of the fiscal problem and balanced is what we need. >> congresswoman diane black, thank you for joining me this morning. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in our political power panel. political reporter, karen tumult, karen finney and robert trainam. karen, since i know you the best, i'm going to call you k-fin as not to confuse everyone. it seems the taxes are going to go up on the wealthy. the question is whether or not it's through the tax increases or closing the loopholes and the deductions. so do you think that we are closer to a deal today than yesterday if. >> i do. in that now they're
MSNBC
Dec 4, 2012 3:00am PST
overwhelming the deficit story was at that point. you know, you look at that administration. the coming in, just no one thought they could do anything. it's not unlike the conversations we're having now. and they went in, they did the deal, president bush had to shift from read my lips to as only he could put it, read my hips. and it was good for the country, it created a political dynamic that cost president bush the election in 1992, and which we're still living, because that gave us grover norquist, et cetera. >> let's get to grover norquist in a minute, but i do have a question. the gop plan consists of $2.2 trillion in savings over a decade. that includes raging the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67. and lowering cost of living increases for social security benefits. they also propose overhauling the tax code to generate $800 billion in new revenue. but without raising taxes on the wealthy. in a letter to the president, leading republicans compared their plan to one erskine bowles drew up last year. >> not even close. >> he rejected that connection and the white house, of cou
MSNBC
Nov 30, 2012 3:00am PST
, congress realized that if they couldn't compromise on a deficit and revenue plan, our economy would crash. turns out they couldn't compromise. so here's what they did. in order to force themselves to work together and compromise, they concocted a catastrophic penalty that would itself crash our economy. brilliant. put it another way. if there is an asteroid headed towards the earth, we made it and fired it at ourselves. because otherwise we would never have done the hard work required to protect ourselves from asteroids. >> good morning. it's friday, november 30th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have msnbc political analyst and vice president and executive editor of msnbc.com, richard wolffe is here. >> he's here? >> my lord. right here on the set. political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. >> hi. >> cute thing. and msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu and former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> he's reading. >> put that down right now. put the smut down. close it up. >> i'm l
MSNBC
Nov 29, 2012 7:00am PST
, that another really important part of this conversation in addition to long term deficit reduction is making sure that we get sustained economic recovery. we saw some good numbers today, but we want to make sure that we sustain that recovery. and extending middle class text cuts is part of it, but so is investing in our infrastructure, so are other elements of the president's jobs plan that should be part of this overall agreement. >> we have seen several liberal democrats to say that it is better to go off that cliff than to get a bad deal. and i'm wondering if you agree because it seems like the ceos who came out of the meeting with the president yesterday were most worried or at least seriously worried about the effect of not getting a deal on time and the effect that will have on the economy. >> we absolutely want to avoid going over the fiscal cliff because it would be a big drag on the economy. >> but are you willing to do that? >> what we're willing to do is come up with a package that both accelerates economic recovery, but also begins to reduce the long term deficit and the presiden
MSNBC
Dec 3, 2012 11:00am PST
, but not as part of the process to reduce the deficit the country faces. >> there's a notion some republicans are for lack of a better word salivating at a possible it divide where you have some democrats who want no movement on entitlements and if there's any heat to be taken, it to come from the gop or go to the gop. >> let me just say a couple of things. first of all, what geithner was referring to is that social security shouldn't be on the table right now because it's not a driver of the deficit we're dealing with right now. he's referring to a separate process next year. what the republicans have asked for previously and i hope they're not going to continue to ask for is essentially the dismantling of medicare. we debated it during the presidential with paul ryan's proposal to put -- turn medicare into a voucher system. so when it comes to looking for savings in medicare, there's ways to find savings without breaking the guarantee that we've had to our seniors for the last several decades. i think democrats, again, have demonstrated repeatedly that we're willing to compromise, but the r
MSNBC
Dec 3, 2012 1:00pm PST
and then these will be the numbers that the committees on capitol hill work towards in terms of having sizable deficit reduction. >> here is the problem, luke. how is it possible that speaker boehner puts on the table $150 billion less than he considered conceding during the grand bargain negotiations? did the last year not happen? >> reporter: what you're seeing here is a proposal by speaker boehner with the $800 billion in revenue which is where they were during -- >> you're trying to stifle yourself from laughing, luke. >> reporter: i'm not. i think one interesting points here in terms of the letter is that the first line is, dear mr. president, after a status quo election, and if you talk to folks at the white house, they don't view it as a status quo election. they thought what they had was a huge victory, and they are just -- if you're flying at 35,000 feet, you see the difference between both of them here is babe e boehner is like our margins in the house, you know, we still have a sense of clout. democrats are saying we increased our clout. this offer is meant by boehner to say the first one from geithn
MSNBC
Dec 4, 2012 11:00am PST
't think any credible economist will tell you we can simply cut our way out of the current deficits and debt. we need new revenues, and where should they come from? should they come from a middle class or working families that have really struggled or had setbacks in the last decade, or should it come from families that have done very well and can be asked to do more? if you look at the prosperity we enjoyed during the clinton administration when the tax rates were higher on upper income families, that certainly didn't kill economic growth. we have incredible economic growth during the clinton years. this same, tired argument that we hear time and time again that any kind of tax increase on anyone will hurt the economy, it isn't borne out by history. >> there are analysts that say both of these proposals are essentially for the base, and na in reality both sides know you'll come to the middle. you have johnny isakson who said earlier there's too much posturing going on here. what is your response that in relation the proposal from the white house and the president as well as from sp
MSNBC
Dec 5, 2012 12:00pm PST
deal with the deficit? that's not coming from the markets. the bond market is saying here's the money you want and we're kind of creating these things out of nowhere to force us to deal with the long-term deficit problem but the short term markets aren't doing it. >> neil, talk about these markets you speak of. i want to play a clip of maria the other day. >> the markets right now are expecting a deal. the markets have been trading fine. if we don't gate deal, we are going to see a sizable decline in stocks. we are going to get a big disappointment. >> markets will be disappointed. the markets have expectations. who is this mr. markets that is endowed with the personality anç expectations and is this monolithic creature that will respond to, you know, what's going on in washington? are we giving the markets a little bit too much personality here? >> well, yeah. i mean, obviously the market is millions of people and institutions all over the world deciding whether to buy stocks or bonds or whatever but more broadly, you know, it is true that markets aren't, you know, they're not alway
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